Does anyone remember how outraged the political oligarchy, their media and 'education' henchhmen were when AIG paid bonuses to executives in one division after a different division had failed to perform? Am I a fool or is that outrage missing now? The misfeasors, malfeasors, and non-feasors in the Congress and the White House and teh Observatory all failed to address teh financial problems of teh Federal Government. As a result, they all got substantial pay increases at the time whrn their employers ["We the people"] are suffering from unemployment, increased taxes, shredded constitutional rights.
Of course, the same group refuses to even talk about real reforms in the costs of government. They want the employers [see above] to pay more to the oligarchs. At the same time, they want the beneficiaries of all the programs to receive less. Has there really been any serious consideration / discussion about workable solutions to the cost issue? Maybe a 10% reduction in the current employment costs of all federal budget items [I can easily exempt active service persons in hostile territory from that]. Let the administrators figure whether that is in personnel cuts or payroll. Determine what Federal programs bring value to the country on an on-going basis and de-funding all that fail that test.
Maybe if the congressional staffs were not so large, there would not be so many lobbiests with access to lawmakers... there would not be so many lawmakers looking for more ways to salt their own mines and pockets. Fewer laws. Laws and regulations that can be understood.
Has anyone considered taking Re. Pelosi's message on a track different from a vote on 'healthcare'... Why not just recall or impeach all of them... then have the pertinent votes or trials?
In my view, the federal government costs too much because it does far more than it was intended to do! That is also, I think, why there are so many lobbyists -- it pays special interests to spend lots of money to influence federal government programs to benefit them.
Instead of impeaching politicians, how about not electing people whom we know are going to continue the growth, influence and power of the federal government and its personnel? No one of us has the ability to do that on our own but we can continue to try to find like-minded voters and try to convince them to help us. The Tea Party movement and groups such as AMAC seem to be leading us (mostly) in the right direction but we need both more adherents and political candidates who can express things as clearly, all-inclusively and persuasively as President Reagan did during the 1980 and 84 presidential campaigns. We also might need a way around the traditional press that might misrepresent those candidates -- the internet seems to be such a way, although the reach of any individual internet vehicle is not nearly as great as more traditional media.
Steve and Roger, you both make good points, however, just as impeachment of those who have become corrupted, is not the complete solution, neither is simply electing new office-holders enough.
Newly elected politicians (especially at the federal level) are immediately thrust into an environment which tends toward corruption. That corrupting influence is Power. The solution then is, in my opinion, to remove the excess power that politicians (government) has either usurped for themselves or have beguiled an uniformed citizenry to give them. In proportion to which the power is reduced the self-serving interests of ‘special interest’ groups will be reduced and the size and scope of government will be reduced.
Of course, as it is in most things, all of that is easier said than done. But we need to find ways to do it.
FOTH, I completely agree with your goals -- but the question is: how do we remove the excess power? I see only two ways -- elect people who are committed to undo the undue (yikes, unintended bad pun!) federal power that's been accumulated or an armed revolt. Not having a gun and being uninterested in acquiring and learning how to use one, I'm rather restricted to the former. That's why, although I don't agree with everything they stand for, I vote straight Libertarian (except for those offices where there are no Libertarians running, in which case I [normally] vote Republican, since in Michigan we're allowed to vote "straight ticket except for..."). Unfortunately, I haven't been able to convince anyone else in my family (although one of my uncles seems to have started moving a bit towards some Libertarian philosophy, udone in part by my mom totally changing from hear earlier conservative views to completely liberal politically) or friends, much less casual acquaintances, so there doesn't seem to be too much chance of a mass swing in the right direction during my lifetime. I am, however, heartened by the popularity of former Texas Republican US House member Ron Paul (even though I disagree with almost everything he says) and the Tea Parties.
Like you, I am not big on the idea of armed revolution. From my observation of the circumstance at hand I am sure you are right that there is not much chance of seeing a significant change of direction in your lifetime or mine either for that matter. And that is a crucial point.
The processes and ideas upon which the current liberal establishment has gained its current power and influence began to be laid before your life, and mine, began. It will not likely be changed in our lifetimes. My view then, is that we need to focus on the what and the how to initiate the processes of change—not when our goals will be satisfied.
Like you, I have had very limited success in persuading others to change their political point of view. But I have introduced many to hear an alternate point of view. It is through the sowing of seeds that a harvest might be expected.
That being said however, my analyzes of the past election is causing me to reconsider my tactics. I realize that persuading voters to change their political affiliations it not only very difficult –it is also unnecessary. Consider this: Obama received only 50.4 percent of the total votes cast. A very, very narrow margin. If only one percent more of those who we know are conservative but did not vote had done so, the outcome would have been different. I realize that the Electoral Vote makes that a moot point in reference to the presidential election, but it is instructive as to just how close the numbers separating conservative voters from the liberal really are. I believe that if there was a full turn-out of all eligible voters—the conservatives would be in the majority. That is why we call ourselves the Silent Majority.
We can defeat the liberals without changing them. We merely need to bring more conservatives into the contest. And I have already found that is easier to identify conservative minded people who do not vote and persuade them to do so than it is to persuade a liberal to see the error of their ideology.
If during the next two years I can bring a few conservatives who have not been voting to the polls then I will feel good about of efforts but nothing will change. If a few hundred others have the same success then the effect might be noticeable but nothing is likely to change. If tens of thousands of us do—then the changes we want will begin to happen. But it will take multiple election cycles to really turn things around. So be it.
Some very good ideas have been presented on this subject and is similar to what the younger generation refers to as "brainstorming" where one idea generates another. After many years, I finally understood Mother's comment, when I (or a sibling) was doing something like cutting up a chicken and the "pulley bone" broke, it's good enough for government work. I in particular was never satisfied if my work was not perfect, but the reality was "what was not in one piece was in another".
The root cause of why government has no accountability is that government does not "work to" the same rules as its citizens and we have appointees writing the "enforcement rules" and in the courts The only viable solution is to shred the CFR and start over with the Constitution and its amendments. Each new piece of legislation, adds more cost and more government workers thereby increasing the tax burden. We must solve the root cause rather than adding new problems (effects). A major contributing factor for many of our problems the electronic record-keeping of each agency or level of government "doing its own thing". We must seize this opportunity to develop processes and systems that can monitor performance and detect problems as they occur. For example immigration: we cleaned it up in 80's but did not secure our borders and now we have the same problem now. We refer to this in industry as Quality by Design and Commensurate with Risk and have exceptional technology today to ensure the integrity of our databases. Overall, the vehicle registration works pretty well because the manufacturer is required to issue a unique identification number for each vehicle and it only gets confounded at the State level in the registration and taxation process. The private sector must be offer a high degree of security for its products and services in order to survive. I don't think a bank would be around long if their systems and processes allowed withdrawals of an account without proof of identity and ownership.
The 2012 Presidential election results, combined with the House of Representatives and governors clearly provide evidence the densely populated areas elected the President. Rural and suburban America won! We don't have to compromise our conservative values and our morals to win back the oval office as we must start with our own family and friends and in our churches to unite Christians of all faiths to take back our Nation as "One Nation God". The current tax burden (businesses and individuals alike) redistributes the wealth from the taxpayer and essentially results in paying government workers and elected officials to seize our rights and property.
These two quotes pretty much express my own opinion of our current state of affairs:
"As a man is said to have a right to his property, he may be equally said to have a property in his rights."---James Madison "It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood." ---James Madison
Rather than investing a lot of time and effort into trying "to win back the oval office," I think we would be better off focusing on trying to return the nation to the ideals mannifested in the US Constitution (thereby making the resident of the White House or the residents of the US Capital relatively unimportant). How we do that, I have yet to discover, but it would likely be something along the lines FOTH described in his last post (although I am not as pessimistic as he that liberals' minds can not be changed -- there certainly must have been a "boatload" of them that voted for the better Presidential candidate in 1984, for members of congress in 1994 and 2010 and for the governors in the most recent elections in Ohio and Wisconsin!).
Your goal to "unite Christians of all faiths" is fine but let's not forget non-Christians (like me) -- you don't have to be a Christian to be a conservative! I don't think you even have to believe in God -- Ayn Rand, while not conservative in all matters, certainly supported limited government and the free market while being dogmatically atheistic.
Mic & Steve, I agree that you do not have to be Christian to be a conservative. I was very conservative but denied Christian teaching until about 1993. Prior to that I had served as President of the local county Right to Life group and had traveled the state advocating for family value issues along with Evangelical Christians, Catholics, and Mormons. I also served on the board of a citizen activist group to prevent adult sex-oriented materials from being made accessible to children in the public libraries. One of our most loyal support groups was the Korean-American community, many of whom followed the teachings of Reverend Moon. The Jewish community (particularly in Seattle) was also very supportive of family value causes that I was engaged in, as were Christian Scientists. The groups I’ve mentioned were also very conservative in regards to economic/fiscal matters as well. So, we do need to keep people of all faiths in mind as we seek allies for political purposes.
People who follow no faith at all present a special problem as targets of organized out-reach efforts in that it is not easy to find them gathered in groups. But they do exist in larger numbers than one would think and they can be identified. Most members (but not all) of the NRA are conservative but not all are people of faith. Likewise, I think most hunters are conservative without regard to faith. And I have no doubt that many non-faith-conservatives are members of AMAC. And surely, many of the listeners to conservative radio talk-shows are non-faith-conservatives, however, they are probably already engaged in the effort so we don’t really need to find them.
In end, the best way to find them may turn out to be just old fashioned door-to-door canvasing of our own neighborhoods. That is the job of party Precinct Committee Officers but it seldom gets done to the extent that it could be done. I plan to start searching my precinct, the Lord willing, this spring, as soon as we have enough daylight in the evening hours to get out and knock on a few doors every week. My goal is to add 100 new conservative voters to the number who voted the 2012 elections and to have twice as many conservative attendees at the 2014 GOP caucuses as showed up in my precinct in 2012. That’s the plan at least—only time will tell how much success I will have.
Steve, I am not sure that liberals changing their minds had that much to do with the Republican victories you mentioned. I think it was just a matter of more conservatives turning out in those particular cases. However, I haven’t really seen any number crunching on that question so I could be wrong. In the meantime I am going to focus on finding those who already agree with me but are not voting.
FOTH, I would have to think that at least with the overwhelming landslide in the 1984 presidential election, there must have been a pretty large number of liberals who voted for Reagan. I haven't looked at the total voting numbers, either, so you could very well be right. But there is the apparently well-accepted theory of the "Reagan Democrats" and I would think a good number of them were (now former) liberals.
When I did my one stint as an election volunteer, we had lists of Republican voters that we were calling, presumably to find those who would otherwise not vote absent some personal prompting; I understand (or maybe just guessed?) that the lists came from records of people who had voted in (a) recent primary election(s), so you might try election officials and/ or current or recent candidates to see whether they know how to get such a list for the purposes you wish. I would think that would be a violation of privacy but the candidate for whom I volunteered got them some way and I can't imagine it was illegal or unethical or it certainly would have caused a scandal -- he was one of several Republican candidates for governor. It was, though, some 25 years or so ago and the privacy laws very well may have been toughened since then.
-- Edited by SteveT on Saturday 16th of February 2013 12:34:22 AM
Steve – I don’t doubt that many who were not typical GOP voters changed their minds and voted for Reagan for a verity of reasons which may have included being persuaded by GOP activists to do so. I know that it is possible to get some of them to change their minds because I have, with the help of God and others, been able to change a few of their minds. That being said, I find it much easier to persuade conservative minded non-voters to become voters, and I think, therefore, that my time and energies reap greater harvest in those fields of endeavor.
You are right that most GOP Get-Out-the-Vote efforts do use lists from primary election voters. Unfortunately, my state (Washington) has become one of those “open ballot” states in which the primary election voter does not have to request a ballot of a particular Party. So those list are no longer of any value to us in identifying party preference of the voters. We can obtain lists from the election department of all registered voters and then use those lists to contact the registered voters by whatever means (phone banking, door belling, mailings) and attempt to identify those most likely to vote GOP. Those that are so identified will be the ones who will get called with reminders to vote. (I am not letting any trade secrets out here—this is SOP for all of the parties.)
Another part of the task is to convince conservative minded people who are not yet registered to vote that they need to join our effort to save our Republic and our national institutions from the liberals who are destroying both. And the other part of the solution is to find and recruit bona fide conservatives who are qualified to hold public office. It's going to take several election cycles to for any real changes to be seen.
As I have said, it won’t be easily done, but we have to do it.
voting republican is useless, they are just as much as fault in this as anyone else, the reason dems have such a advantage is because they represent free, , fool the people into believing they can acquire more free stuff and have better jobs, where they work less and get more pay, union bosses have fooled their constituents, into believing they represent them, they like the democraps have only power and money on their minds, lavish pay and benefits with the job they have,,,,
but when push come to shove, the free sh^& will run out and the stuff will hit the fan, either way America is destined to fall economically, there is no way to advert a collapse when you devalue the currency by printing, and dumping 40 billion into the economy every month, inflation will catch up sooner or later, and it will take more and more of the dollar to buy goods, and then all hell will break loose, and someone needs to ask ol berninski or what ever his name is where he is dumping this fake money, they (hussein) is doing things to make this country default for a reason, you are not going to change my mind, I am not bill orielly and think this guy believes he is doing things this way because he believes it will help the country, ahhhhhh, nah,
their is an agenda with all the money being sent to the muslim brotherhood, and pakistan, which has been going on before hussein, when they talk about "one world order" the bush admin perked my attention when he talked about this, and then now you read where dhs is rampping up military arms and ammunition, I do not trust the government who is bigger than the people, our constitution declares the people are the government, the elected have overreached its power and declared it self separate from the people,
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Native Californinian, conservative to the core, US Navy 74-78, electrician for 33 years, Totally against hussein and his dems friends wo are out to destroy my and your country!!!
Hamrs—I have to disagree with you that voting for Republicans is useless. It may not be the total solution to all of our problems, nonetheless our problems today have been made a lot worse by the failure a few more people to vote Republican.
If Mitt Romney, instead of Obama, had been elected last fall then Obama-care would be well on its way to being a thing of the past right now and the American people would now know the details about the Benghazi disaster. The people responsible would be held accountable and Hillary’s 2016 bid for the White House would already be over just because of her exposed role in the cover-up of that affair. Steps would be taken to stop the foolishness that allowed Benghazi to happen in the first place. But because too many people saw no advantage in voting Republican none of that is going to happen.
Moreover, new energy policies would already be in place and the immediate effect of those would have prevented the price of gas at the pumps form shooting up as they have in the past few weeks. As it is now nothing is being done, and nothing is going to be done, to bring them back down. And the worst is yet to come.
When it comes to assessing fault it is helpful to keep things in proper perspective. The Democrat’s fault is in the direction they are taking the county deliberately. The fault of the Republicans is that they are not doing enough to stop the Democrats from taking us in that direction. Part of the reason for that fact is that the Republican Party moderates have been holding back the Conservatives. The Tea-Party movement is now having a huge impact in changing that and we, meaning me and you, need to help them to be more successful in those efforts. Withdrawing ourselves from the fray when everything is now on line is not a reasonable option. A person who does not vote has no power. A person who just votes but does nothing else is using the least amount of power required to select between the choices others have put on the ballot in front of him. A person who is involved in one of the major parties multiplies his power by helping to choose the names that will be on the ballot and by encouraging others to vote for those he has helped to put on the ballot.
Ours is a government of the people but the power of the people is, like it or not, channeled through the two major political parties. So our only option, at least for the time being, is to pick the party that we want to win and help it to do so. That means we either support the Democrats or we oppose them. If you chose to oppose the Democrats then there is no option but to support the Republicans. Help them to overcome their faults and to do a better job. Until we do that all of our complaints will be in vein.
while I have to say can is better then dems, the fact is look at the idiot mccain now, is senility kicking in or has he always thought like this, remember, reagan, he did some good things, he stole my social security too, the new repubs have better ideas then the old, but, it is yet to be seen as to where they are going, the problem as I see it is corruption gets a hold and the money and greed take over, the power one feels I guess when they get in office,,,, they decide that 535 people are the government and we are the slaves, working to meet the needs of the elect, WE THE PEOPLE have had the table turned on us, the people are the government, but they have decided to create laws the protect them from the constitution, and to take away the peoples power to self governance, and to force laws upon the people, and the repubs have done this, not just the dems, how many repubs have joined forces with the left on disarming the country, I have been on both sides, dems use to stand for something, and now repubs are moving to the left, I am with the tea party, where the rhinos need replaced, and conservatives no matter how strange need to be installed, for get about there back ground, we have all done stupid stuff in our youth, look at who they elected president, a admitted cocaine, user, look at his shady past, his associations, did that all matter, and yet if one of tea party, if they played with ouija board then they are considered UN-electible,,,,,
personally I don't trust them, I look at my own officials here where I live, dems and repubs, they all speak with forked tongue
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Native Californinian, conservative to the core, US Navy 74-78, electrician for 33 years, Totally against hussein and his dems friends wo are out to destroy my and your country!!!
Hamrs-- I don’t know if your local officials all speak with a forked tongue or not but I will take your word for that. Everything else you said in your last post may be true as well. But nothing you said offers a solution.
Do you have any suggestions as to what we might do to change any of the problems you describe?
not sure how to change things, if you vote for a law and the elect dont like it they just over turn it, like the marriage law we voted in here in califorcation, the people voted for a man and a woman and the elect over turned it, then we give ultimate power to the courts, if they dont think it is constitutional (whether they are right or wrong they have the power to decide), we the people have no choice, until we take control back we are doomed, heck, how to change things, other than a uprising it will be futile, the so called president has to much power, when he can sign a executive order on anything, bypassing the judicial branch is ludicrous, where is the checks and balances of government, where do the people fit in, and convincing the 50% of those who are hypnotized by the free stuff, and those who want ultimate power over the masses, we call it a free nation, wheres the freedom, yes I know we call this the greatist nation, just look around, I have heard all that, in this country what do you really own, name one thing, car, house, retirement, what can you say you really own, if you dont pay the government their share every year you own nothing, what can you buy legally that government doesn't have a interest in, and then they instead of the people have the ultimate power, shoot now they can drone you with out giving you your rights, disarm you when the very document was a design for freedom is now decerned irrelevant,
I don't know how to turn things around, if I did I would be the first one to stand up and say so, the left is undermining the future of this nation, and the future freedom of our children, and I stood and gave an oath to protect and defend our constitution many years ago, and will some day be called upon to protect it again, and will stand ready to do so,
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Native Californinian, conservative to the core, US Navy 74-78, electrician for 33 years, Totally against hussein and his dems friends wo are out to destroy my and your country!!!
Agreed Steve. Maybe everyone needs to watch Atlas Shrugged 2 to see where were headed to jar their thinking a bit. Until we are able to simplify and dumb down our message (to the 3rd grade level and emotion like the mainstream media does). We must point out the possibilities of greatness, and benefits of personal responsibility and acccountability to the masses, or were going to have a BIG problem. With almost half the country depending on government in some way shape or form, we ALL need to get to work on this right away, and we MUST stay at it until we prove our common sense points, based on simple understandable conservative and even more so Libertarian principles like those of our "Founding Fathers". That's how we begin to take back the once proud America that I know and love.
I'm not sure that our message needs to be dumbed down to get it across. I think our positions resonate with common sense. The problem lies in the counter-attacks by the liberals that distort reality. I’m not sure how we would get our message out there any more than the ways we have been trying for decades. Maybe we have to try something different.
In the past 50 years our society has gone from respecting to disparaging any form of patriotism, our flag, our military, the wealthy, scientists, engineers, corporations, business executives, investors, and any other form of intelligence. The liberals have intentionally built this distain for us “good guys” for several reasons (1) discredit intellect and reason because logic exposes liberal lies and distortions, (2) discredit patriotic people, intelligent professions and wealthy classes for the same reason, (3) paint these people, professions and classes as deceitful, corrupt, greedy manipulators, (4) use points 1 through 3 as justification for taxing away their “undeserved” wealth and as substantiation that they cannot be believed or trusted. How often do you see these “good guys” portrayed in the media, especially movies and TV, as other than bumbling fools, uptight OCD jerks, and/or evil, greedy, power-hungry tyrants? And who do the media portray as heroes? Jocks, rappers, famous-for-being-famous, dopers, slackers, and even criminals.
We’ve been fighting a rear-guard action on all of this for decades to no effect (although I have trouble labeling the GOP’s perpetually pathetic PR as a “fight”).Perhaps trying to explain cause-and-effect to the intellectually challenged is a lost cause when they readily consume the simple, easy-to-swallow pabulum of the left. So when our message is constantly slandered, libeled and shouted down, what’s the answer? Rather than continuing to fight these losing battles, how do we win the war?
The solution must be systemic and institutionalized. We have to teach kids more than memorization. We must teach them to think. We must rescue them from an education system that treats their minds as a place to pour propaganda. Why do you think the liberals fight fanatically against school vouchers? It’s not just to support the teachers union; it’s to protect their biggest weapon. As long as the public education system remains outside of the influence of the free market, the left has a guaranteed home for their propagandists.
The sheep in any population typically amount to 80% or more. It’s quite noticeable in the workplace, churches, committees, social clubs, etc. There are always lots of followers and few leaders. Unfortunately, liberals dominate in the shepherds group that is herding the sheep throughout their formative years. That’s because liberal brains realize they aren't competent to compete in real jobs in the real world, so they find refuge in public schools, journalism, acting, and the Demoncrat party (certainly there are non-liberal teachers in the public system but they’re a distinct minority as any of them will tell you). These jobs enable the liberals to catch kids when they're young and naive while in school, entertain the teens while they're maturing, spin the world events for them in their 20's, and replace their parents for them in their 30's. Thereby, the liberals own the audience of sheep. And they even believe they deserve it - the sheep’s blind acceptance and adoration of the liberals “superior intellect” convinces the liberals they are clearly smarter than crude conservatives, greedy capitalists and anyone else stupid enough to wave the flag, believe in God, and not love Nanny Government.
Our schools are loaded with "those who can't"; the media with blathering talking heads (or as the Brits correctly put it "news readers"); the Demoncrat party with corrupt panderers who would never win if they couldn't buy votes with our money, and Hollywood with egos too big to accept that their profession is little different from its source - court jesters who served at the whim of actual leaders. Only school vouchers and follow up via a free internet can undo these emperors with no clothes. I hope I live long enough to see it.
-- Edited by AllanC on Monday 25th of March 2013 10:34:38 AM
I don't think you even have to believe in God -- Ayn Rand, while not conservative in all matters, certainly supported limited government and the free market while being dogmatically atheistic.
